Christians & Muslims Forums

[Abdurrahman]

[b]2 Thessalonians 2:3-5 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things


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Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day (the day of the Lord) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God








22Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'


This is Matthew 7:22-23

Matt. 5:18-19: "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."






As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good-except God alone. You know the commandments: 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.'"




The Temptation of Jesus

1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And after He had fasted forty days and forty nights, He then became hungry. 3 And the tempter came and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.” 4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.’”
5 Then the devil took Him into the holy city and had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written,
‘HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU’;
and
‘ON their HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP,
SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.’”
7 Jesus said to him, “On the other hand, it is written, ‘YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.’”
8 Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory; 9 and he said to Him, “All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me.” 10 Then Jesus said to him, “Go, Satan! For it is written, ‘YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.’” 11 Then the devil left Him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him.



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Stop clinging to me; for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren (disciples), and say to them, 'I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.' (John 20: 17).

[Aineo]

Those are great verses that show Muhammad is a false prophet, especially this one:

[Abdurrahman]

2Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day (the day of the Lord) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God

[Aineo]

That Mary was ever in Saudi Arabia and that Jesus crafted clay birds (a story that originated in Infancy Gospel of Thomas).
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[Abdurrahman]

[Aineo]

[FIGSOLIVES]

ASSALAMU 3ALAIKUM AKHI 3ABDUL RAHMAN.

AKHI DON'T YOU SEE THAT YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME WITH THESE GUYS, THEY DON'T SEE OR UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU AND ME SEE BROTHER, SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY ARE LOST AND TRAPED IN THIER OWN MIND. IN OTHER WORDS IT IS CALLED ARROGANCE....THE SAME SIN OF SATAN....HE KNEW THE TRUTH AND HE CAN ACT UPON IT IF HE WANTS TO,BUT OUT OF ARROGANCE FROM HIS MIND AND HEART TOWARDS OUR FATHER ADAM HE SAID NO TO ALLAH, BECAUSE HE COULDN'T ACCEPT THE IDEA THAT ADAM IS BETTER THAN HIM !!!...AND UNTIL TODAY HE IS WHAT HE IS....WELL, THESE GUYS ARE NOT SATAN.. NO, THEY ARE WORSE!! .. SATAN WAS GUIDED ONEDAY THEN HE CHOSES THE WRONG WAY OUT OF KNOLWEGE, BUT THESE GUYS WERE NEVER GUIDED TO BEGEN WITH AND ON TOP OF THAT THEY ARE MISSGUIDED BY THEIR OWN WILL AND DESIERS. ONLY GOD CAN GUIDE THEM...NOT YOU NORE ME CAN DO ANYTHING TO THEM RATHAR TO DELEVER THE MASSAGE.... I BELIVE EVEN IF JESUS HIMSELF COME DOWN AND TALK TO THEM THEY WILL DENIY HIM AND REJECT HIM IF HE DOSEN'T SAY WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR........
I ASK ALLAH TO GUIDE ALL THOSE WHO ARE MISSGUIDED....AMEEN

JAZAKA ALLAHU KHAIRAN
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WISDOM IS MY LONG PURSUED AIM... WHEREVER I FIND IT IS MY CLAIM

[Aineo]

FIGSOLIVES, Muhammad included some Biblical concepts concerning knowledge and wisdom in the Qur'an. So when you accuse us (me) of appealing to knowledge you are denigrating your own holy book. However, Muhammad chose to include Gnostic concepts in the Qur'an, so I would be careful with your unfounded accusations.
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[Abdurrahman]

[Aineo]

If your reason for starting this thread is to concentrate on the traditional Trinity doctrine, I will save you the time and effort. You cannot disprove the Trinity with the Qur'an, but you can with the Bible:
Trinity Debate

Unitarian Universalist churches are growing in numbers, however these churches are not Christian and many members are atheists who deny the existence of a creator god. Biblical and evangelical unitarian churches are not "growing rapidly".

As to the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, what scholars call a manuscript is not the issue. This issue is the accuracy of what is written in manuscripts that are apocryphal and myth. The only difference between the the clay bird account is that in the Thomas manuscript the 5 year-old Jesus broke the commandment concerning making images, which he then brought to life and Allah giving life to clay birds made by a disobedient child. What the Qur'an has to say about Mary is found in the Protoevangelium of James, which is also apocryphal and myth.
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[Abdurrahman]

It seems ,you do not believe in trinity.

If so , according to many christians you are not a christian.

[Aineo]

I no longer care what Trinitarians believe concerning me, the Scriptures are clear that God is one not three in one and that Yaweh is the only true God, which removes Allah from the running.

God created man in His own "image" or "form". The Greek word translated "form" is "morphee" and means "as something hits the eye". What Paul is teaching regards attitude, not nature. You are making the same mistake Trinitarians have made for centuries and that is interpreting Scripture the way you think it will fit you agenda. Paul did not teach anything that is not found in the Old Testament, which is why he praised the Bereans for searching the Scriptures daily to see if what he taught was true.

Now, I am going to hold you to the OP and you did not mention Paul in the OP. "What did prophet Jesus son of Mary say", he said that God who is also called Yaweh the Father is the only true God and that he (Jesus) is His son. Jesus also told Pilate that he is a King, but not of this realm (the realm of Rome and a captive Israel). He (Jesus) also said he would return and set up the Kingdom of God as prophesied in the prophets, who prophesied that the name of a man born of a woman would be called "Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Wonderful Counselor, and Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6). This name is Immanuel (Isaiah 7:4). In Psalm 83 we are told that Yaweh will destroy Israel's enemies before the Son who is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords will return. So if you expect to have an eternal life in Paradise (the New Jerusalem that will come down from heaven after God creates a new heaven and a new earth), I suggest you leave a false religion devised by a false prophet and accept the one true God and His Anointed One.
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[Abdurrahman]

[Aineo]

Abdurrahman, I am not going to take the time to explain why YWHW is not found in the NT since anyone whose agenda is truth can find the answer to that question in Judaism. I will only say that the Jews viewed God's covenant name so holy that they do not utter His name for fear of misusing His name and therefore breaking the 3rd Commandment

[Abdurrahman]

Do you want to discuss divinity of Mary peace be upon him in this thread ?

[Aineo]

[Abdurrahman]

[Aineo]

[Abdurrahman]

[Aineo]

[Abdurrahman]

[Aineo]

That is a nice rationalization of the fact that any god worthy of being called God would not warn both groups, those few who view Mary as a god and those who believe the Holy Spirit is the third person in a Trinity, especially since the Mary is god group was and remains a minor cult even among Catholics.

How Islam views Mary is nothing more than a modification of the Isis/Osiris/Horus myth of Egyptian mythology, where Isis impregnated herself with the "essence" from Osiris in order to give birth to Horus. Muhammad fell into the same Satanic trap that Catholicism/Orthodoxy does with their May is the mother of god heresy. Mary was God's choice for bringing His Anointed into the world, however Mary was not a prophet and is to be viewed "blessed among women" but not blessed above all mankind.

[Abdurrahman]

That 's another interesting point .

I have never met anyone worshipping Holy Spirit or praying to Holy Spirit.

It seems Holy Spirit is viewed like filling element of trinity in christianity.

Ruhul- Kudus , Ruhul Emeen , in the Quran is the archangel Gabriel which is one of the most powerful angels and is created by One and only G-d like anything else in the universe.

[Aineo]

Muhammad simply adopted the Catholic/Orthodox view of Mary and the immaculate conception, which again demonstrates that the Qur'an is a human invention. Maybe the perpetual virgin, immaculate conceived Qur'anic Mary is better associated with Artimas the virginal moon goddess than Isis. However, if Allah could say be and it was why even get Mary involved?

God is spirit so who is the Holy Spirit? God.

However, you have simply avoided that any god worth the title of god would not simply warn a minor sect that viewed Mary as a goddess and not have warned the majority who viewed God as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
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[Abdurrahman]

[Aineo]

I have already addressed those who taught Mary was a goddess. Since I did not know that a minor Arabian sect believed Mary is a goddess does not prove the Qur'an is true, what this does prove is that Muhammad got it wrong and the Qur'an is nothing more than an invention of Muhammad that was drawn from local beliefs of what constituted Christianity in the 7th century. The fact is no person other than Jesus the Christ (Christ is a title not a name) ever lived a sinless life and that includes Mary.

[Abdurrahman]

[Aineo]

There is more than one mistake in the Qur'an, Jesus did not make clay birds and he did not speak when he was a baby, both of these accounts come from apocryphal literature that dates to the 2nd century or later.

The official stance of both the Catholic and Orthodox churches is that Mary is to be honored above all mankind and the Qur'an parrots this and although there are groups who want Mary declared a goddess and some groups who in the past believed Mary is a goddess the fact is you cannot find any such doctrine to be the official stance of either Catholicism, Orthodoxy, or Arianism. If Muhammad was a prophet he would have known that what Catholicism labels the Arian heresy taught that God is one and that Jesus is a created being. As to some Catholics praying to Mary for the forgiveness of their sins, you need to prove this point. In Catholicism priests are charged with the forgiveness of sin in the confessional. Catholics maintain they pray to Mary so that she as God's mother can ask her Son to answer their prayers.

I do not believe that I posted that Jesus claimed to have lived a sinless life. So why attack a straw man?